Play vs Bot - one bug and couple suggestions !
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Denis-George Constantin (playhunter)
Just earlier today was the first time for me when I tested the new Play vs Bot feature, and looks awesome. I just played 5 matches to 7 points and won 4 of them (but in one of them the bot helped me with 1 gift point - that's the bug I am reporting), with an average PR of 3.5 :-) ! OK, enough with bragging.
The bug is the fact that the bot is set to resign before it executes its move (or even before it rolls ?), and seems there will be situations when instead to resign a gammon, it will resign a backgammon (see screenshot attached), or instead to resign a single game, it will resign a gammon.
The suggestions I have are three:
a) would be much more useful if I can pick to look ONLY at GNUBG World Class matches when looking into bot's profile, $bot ! As of now I can't know for sure on which setting it played its match - I can just assume that most 1pt matches were played at the beginner level because of membership restriction, while longer matches, without restrictions, should have been played at World Class setting - but again, I can't know for sure. I also don't see a reason of why a non restricted member would choose to play a bot below World Class level ?
Maybe an idea would be if you set the bot to play all its matches to World Class level, but non members can play only 1 point matches (or can't play at all) against the bot, while full members can play all lengths. But all bot matches to be played at the maximum (World Class) level ?
b) think we should not be able to start a new bot match if we have an unfinished bot match ! If we have an unfinished bot match, when we press the Play a Bot button, we should be sent to continue our unfinished bot match. I see no reason to start multiple bot matches and leave some of them unfinished ?
c) as I just wrote in another comment to someone else just earlier, maybe we can have the option to play clock matches against the bot (for training purposes). The default clock option should be set to None (I like the fact that I can leave a match unfinished for a while and continue it at another time or in another day).
BUT if we choose to play with clocks, then we assume the risk that we will lose the match and there is no way to revert back to where we left the match if for example electricity shuts down until our clock times out. But still, I sense that for training purposes (especially for speed or blitz) might be a good addition.
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Backgammon Hub Admin
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I'm going to close this as the major bug is fixed. If there are still feature requests for bot play, please create a new post - one per request so I can manage them. Thanks.
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Alfie Kirkpatrick [Developer]
@Denis-George Constantin (playhunter), I have hopefully fixed the premature resignation bug. I'll consider your other comments in due course 🙂
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Alfie Kirkpatrick [Developer]
Denis-George Constantin (playhunter) thanks for the feedback. The bot play seems to be popular, accounting for 10-20% of matches daily.
Regarding the bug, I will have to look into it, because it's the GNU engine that is resigning. Perhaps it is offering to resign a single game when playing on would inevitably lead to bearing off at least one checker (hence single game). But of course offering to resign for specific points (to speed up matches) is not supported on Hub currently. I'll take a look.
a) It should be possible to show the bot level in the listing, and with a bit more work I can add it to the filter. BUT, it is not really intended to be able to see all the bot matches! Earlier today I thought perhaps I should remove this link completely.
Regarding playing the bot at lower skill levels, not all of us can compete with the World Class engine! It's demoralising to lose to it all the time, so I think it's nice to have the option of the weaker skill level.
I want to keep the non-member bot matches at a low skill level because, honestly, I don't want bot matches to be the primary purpose of the site and reduce human play. If someone is a paying member, fine. But I don't want to allow non-members to sit on the site playing a world class engine. Also (and this is minor), the higher skill levels require more compute resource, so there is a small cost associated.
b) I'm not sure about this. Rage quitting is perfectly acceptible against the bot! I see no reason to restrict the number of bot matches a player can start. It's related to above - your bot matches should really be your private business, just like my ChatGPT conversations 😉.
c) Clock options should be simple to add
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Denis-George Constantin (playhunter)
Alfie Kirkpatrick [Developer] I'll try to bring in some arguments:
a) I find it interesting (even useful) to review bot matches against other players. Some players are using same nicknames on other platforms, and are known players. Some very good. Would be useful to see how they play against a superior opponent (assuming they will play against World Class).
I see the point of getting demoralized to be always beaten by a bot, in which case it will lead to eventually giving up at playing against it. But, none can lose them all. Even a 10 PR player will win between 25% to 30% against the best bot ! I don't think 25% win rate against best player in the world (bot) should be demoralizing ? And if the win rate needs to be bigger, they can play 1 or 3 point matches, where the win rate is 35% to 40%. In 1 point matches, even a beginner (PR 16-20) have at least 33% against the best bot !
Are there many paying members (what %?) who prefer keep playing against the bots below World Class level ? - I think this is a stat you can easily look at ? If the answer is "yes", then I understand that it must be something counterintuitive for me and surely you need to keep it as it is now. But if the answer is "no, not many" ..
b) I wasn't thinking at rage quitting. I was thinking that it is easy to start a match, something pops-up in the middle of it and you need to leave it for another time. Then you forget about it, and end up with an unfinished match (not ideal !). - Now, if next time when you press the Play a Bot button, if you will be redirected to play your unfinished match, you will remember about it and can continue it from where you left (that's ideal !).
As for rage quitting, well if you don't want your players rage quit on other humans, don't allow them rage quit on bots either ! Especially since this is online and we don't see each other, if I use to play a lot against bots and I tend to rage quit against them when losing, I might (by reflex) just do the same when I play against other humans too (it is easy to hit the X button of the browser !).
Also, if you will allow players to have multiple unfinished matches against the bot, their stats against the bot won't be correct (my stats will show 100% win rate if every time I lose I will just not finish the match). The stats against the bot in each player's secondary profile is just excellent (and should remain public I think - why not ?), and would be a pity to not use it to its full extent.